Posted by: thebridegroomcomes | July 28, 2011

I’ve been wrong in an assumption, maybe you too?

Dear Fellow Believer in Christ’s soon return,

On WorldNetDaily.com, a leading Christian internet news source, Pastor Jan Marcussen offered $1 million to anyone who could show from the Bible that we are duty-bound to keep Sunday holy. His offer was in an excellent article, SABBATH VS. SUNDAY: THE REST OF THE STORY. You might like to read it later and share this link with friends — http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=57978

Christians in general and Seventh-day Adventists in particular, have an assumption that the weekly cycle has existed since creation, but the following information offers evidence to the contrary, and I’m offering $100 to the first person who can post a text of Scripture here

to show where the 7th-day Sabbath fell on any other day than the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd or 29th of any month, except the Creation Sabbath which was the 7th-day of that week. (That Sabbath was Adam’s first full day; it was like a new moon that begins our months.)

Is it a coincidence that the Sabbaths mentioned in the Bible fall on the 8th, 15th, or 22nd of the month and that we can’t find any reference to them falling on any other day? Here’s an examples–when they came out of Egypt, that first day of unleavened bread on the 15th of Abib was a Shabbath, (Strong’s 7676, as shown for Leviticus 23:11. Coincidence?

NO! It can’t be a coincidence because in the 2nd month, the 15th day was also a Sabbath when God said He would send them manna for six days and none on the Sabbath, Exodus 16:1.26. This could never happen with our Gregorian Calendar from Rome–not a coincidence!

Our calendar won’t allow Sabbath on the 15th of any two consecutive months except for Feb/March. If the New Moon falls on March 1, then March 15 could also be a Sabbath, otherwise our calendars don’t fit the Bible format when the New Moon was to be “the beginning of months.” Exodus 12:2.

I am making a huge change–my webpage, www.LunarCalendar.netfirms.com has been wrong to give 10 Reasons Why the Lunar Calendar is wrong, because it now looks right to me and I plan to take my webpage down in a month if nobody can claim the $100 by showing a Bible example where any Sabbath since creation coincides with any other day in the month than the New Moon, the 8th, 15th, 22nd or 29th.

I’m sending this email to SDA leaders (General Conference men and local conference presidents) for them to see the problem we have with a Roman calendar what won’t fit the Bible’s formating.

The problem for some people is the extra day at the end which means an incomplete week before the [new] moon signals the next month and the start of another cycle. But the language of Lev 23:15 supports the existence of incomplete weeks then as it specifies 7 “complete” weeks to Pentecost (we just don’t count those that are not complete.)

This is not a “test of fellowship” now, but it’s an opportunity to study the matter before it is an issue… maybe even as early as next year! Here’s why–“The Gregorian calendar…was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII, …by a decree signed on 24 February 1582.” (Wikipedia)

God took Israel out of Egypt 430 years to the day from when they entered Egypt, Exodus 12:41.

From 1582 when Rome gave us this calendar, 430 years bring us to next year! when both Israel (Christians who will accept torah) and Judah (Jews who accept Messiah) may end their prophetic 430 years, Ezekiel 4:5,6. I think we should be promoting an expectancy of an Exodus2, a coming out of Babylon (fallen systems of medicine, education, government, religion [and calendar] for next year, even as Israel contemplated and got ready for the Exodus well before it happened.

Thank you for considering this information. I look forward to any response you may have by your  comments here..

A brother in Christ,

Richard Ruhling

PS: An additional advantage of God’s lunar calendar is that it enables the observance of Passover, the Feast of Trumpets (“Blow up the trumpet in the New Moon, Psalm 81:3) and the Feast of Tabernacles to fall on 7th-day Sabbaths) These institutions were designed to teach truths in the plan of salvation, but on Rome’s calendar, they often fell in the middle of a week and were more difficult to observe, but we’ve been missing much by ignoring them…

“They were designed to teach the people that at the time appointed One would come to whom those ceremonies pointed.” Christ’s Object Lessons, p 34. “The types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service.” Great Controversy, p 399.9

Here’s just one examples. The New Moon (crescent) was in the sky the eve of October 1, 2008 when the US Senate met and approved $760 billion in bailout money to corrupt banks. Anciently they blew trumpets for 10 days till the Day of Atonement, Leviticus 23:24. The stock market crashed for 10 days (excepting weekends). We may have focused on our money (General Conference lost millions, more than they want to admit) and though the events were shouting it, we saw no significance to God’s calendar, forgetting that “In the time of the end, every divine institution is to be restored.” Prophets & Kings, p 678/

You might want to watch for the New Moon (thin crescent seen in the western sky about 30 minutes after sunset) this Sunday evening. “Blow up the trumpet in the New Moon!” Psalm 81:3. Sunday evening and Monday (moon day from Rome) happens to be the start of the 5th Jewish month–more about something timely in the 5th month next time–may God bless your study of His Word.


Responses

  1. You positional statement: “Christians in general and Seventh-day Adventists in particular, have an assumption that the weekly cycle has existed since creation, but the following information offers evidence to the contrary, ….”

    Concerning the evidence you provided, are they about weekly Creation Sabbaths or annual Feast related Sabbaths?

    Creation Sabbaths are about the past events. The annual Feast related Sabbaths are about future events.

    Please be clear on this distinction in your article.

    With this distinction, sorry brother in Christ, I cannot accept your evidence.

    My positional statement: “The weekly cycle has existed since creation and has never be broken and will never be broken.”

    How I was led to this position?

    Based on Genesis 1:22 and 28, 2:3, Isaiah 66:23 I have come to know that when God bless His creatures and Sabbath, they will multiply after its own kind. The weekly seventh-day Creation Sabbath multiply weekly — into eternity by the sunsets on Earth and in Heaven.

    (Please note that Revelation 21:23 was not written that there will be no sun but “no need of the sun” for shining. It can still serve the need to mark evenings.)

    What do you think?

    • I think we have an artificial distinction between weekly Sabbaths that you refer to as Creation Sabbaths, and annual Sabbaths that we both agree are historic and prophetic. I’m seeing support in Leviticus 23:11 that the 15th day of the first Jewish month was a 7th-day Sabbath (Shabbath, Strong’s 7676) and that’s on the calendar that God gave with the New Moon at “the beginning of the months,” Exodus 12:2. This is also true for the 2nd month, based on Exodus 16:1,23 where the 7th-day [Creation as you call it] Sabbath coincided with 15th and 22nd day of the month. Even the 7th-day Sabbath is historic and also prophetic, for “a thousand years are like a day” and after six days, God rested. We are about to enter the 7th millennium.
      Part of our misunderstanding is Rome’s [Gregorian] Calendar that cycles every seven days and it does not allow the New Moon to be “the beginning of the months” nor count the Sabbath days from it to be on the 8th, 15th, 22nd, 29th, but when Christ was in the tomb on the Sabbath, that 7th-day Sabbath was also the 15th day for the Feast of Unleavened Bread and therefore a “high day” John 19:21ish. That wasn’t just a coincidence. Every Feast of Unleavened Bread (each spring) should have the 15th day fall on a 7th-day Sabbath, counting from the New Moon.that begins the month.

  2. Brother Richard, thank you for your reply before you taking a trip until Thursday or Friday!

    I appreciate you zeal for truth. Sorry my friend for disappointing you that I disagree with you that the distinctions of the weekly Sabbaths and the annual Sabbaths are artificial. They are two different kinds of Sabbaths.

    The intent of the weekly Sabbath is historic.

    The primary intent of the weekly Sabbath is to be memorial day of God’s rest on the seventh day. Exodus 20:11 Based on the first intent, the secondary intent of the annual Sabbath is to be similarly a memorial day of God’s deliverance of His people from human slavery by the Egyptians. Deuteronomy 5:15

    The intent of the annual Sabbaths is prophetic.

    The primary intent of the annual Sabbath is to be type of Christ about His burial — shadow implied the body that blocked light. Colossians 2:16-17 The secondary intent of the annual Sabbath is to increase our faith about the divine origin of the Bible — only God of the Bible knows the future with 100% precision. Isaiah 41:23

    Sabbaths with two different intents means they are two different kinds of Sabbaths.

    I understand that you may not be able to reply until you return from your trip and readjusting your life back to normal. It might mean next week. Take your time.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    For everyone’s convenience I quoted my Bible references below:

    “for six days hath Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and resteth in the seventh day; therefore hath Jehovah blessed the Sabbath-day, and doth sanctify it.” Exodus 20:11

    “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” Deuteronomy 5:15

    “Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of Sabbaths (plural of same kind), which are a shadow of the coming things, but the body of the Christ;” Colossians 2:16-17

    “Declare the things that are coming hereafter, And we know that ye are gods, Yea, ye may do good or do evil, And we look around and see it together.” Isaiah 41:23

  3. Dear Brother Chin-Lee,

    Let me give an example. The Hebrew word for health is yahshua; it is the same Hebrew word as for salvation. They go together. Christ could not separate them in His life and ministry, even though the ultimate salvation was not experienced by some like 9 lepers who never said Thank You.

    In a similar way, the Hebrew word for Sabbath is Shabbat, Strong’s 7676, and it always applies to 7th day Sabbaths according to scholars, but it also applies to the 1st day of Unleavened Bread in Lev 23:11, which always came on the 15th day of the month, counting from the New Moon.

    While on the surface, it might seem a coincidence to you, the fact that the 15th day of the 2nd month and 22nd were also 7th-day Sabbaths means something that couldn’t happen with our calendar–you can’t have the 15th of two consecutive months on a 7th-day Sabbath.

    The point I’m saying is that God’s calendar as implied in Exodus 12:2 makes the New Moon the starting pointing for new month and we are to work six days after the new moon and rest the 8th day, work six and rest the 15th, work six (the week manna started to fall, but none fell on 22nd, in Exodus 16:1,23.

    Sabbaths are all historic of Creation and the Exodus, but they are also prophetic. There will be a 7th millenium of rest that is soon to start, and there will be a time of impending judgment for the living on Passover when God said, “I will execute judgment” Exod 12:12.

    We may expect to see the 7 trumpets of Rev 8,9 be initiated on a Feast of Trumpets because “the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service.” GC 399.9

    I am sorry that my explanations may be lacking, but use of Col 2:17 is negative because of poor translation–the word “is” was added in KJV. It makes it sound like those days are just shadows of things to come and now that Christ has come, we have the real thing and can forget those.

    I would translate it as “Don’t let anyone judge you for keeping those days–the body of Christ (local church) can determine how you keep them.”

    Please review the 13 Reasons to Keep the Annual Sabbaths-let me know if you didn’t get them. Since God instituted them by statutes forever, having them coincide with 7th-day Sabbaths as defined by Exod 12:2 is an advantage with 4 of 7 falling on 7th-day Sabbaths by God’s definition.

    I hope this helps, wishing you well.
    Richard

  4. I’d like to offer some input into this discussion, regarding the word Sabbath H7676 and where it is used and it’s significance.

    All 7th day sabbaths in scripture are on the 8th, 15th, 22nd and 29th days of the month.

    Now lets examine some scriptural and Ellen White evidence to confirm this, using the scenes of the exodus and manna, and the crucifixion.

    The 7th day sabbath word we’re keeping an eye on, from Exodus 20 is H7676

    Exo 20:10 But the seventhH7637 dayH3117 is the sabbathH7676 of the LORDH3068 thy God:H430 in it thou shalt notH3808 doH6213 anyH3605 work,H4399 thou,H859 nor thy son,H1121 nor thy daughter,H1323 thy manservant,H5650 nor thy maidservant,H519 nor thy cattle,H929 nor thy strangerH1616 thatH834 is within thy gates:H8179

    Exodus 20 establishes that the word for 7th day sabbath is H7676

    First month

    When the Israelites left Egypt, it was on the 15th day of the 1st month. It was the 1st day of unleavened bread. Yes, it was a 7th day sabbath. That’s God’s problem to deal with. Scripture confirms this is the day they left. They left the day after the 14th, which we know was the passover, the 6th day, preparation day. This is confirmed by scripture and Ellen White. The other day involved here is the day after the 15th, which would be the 16th, or the wave sheaf day after the Israelites came into the land.

    Lev 23:11 And he shall waveH5130 (H853) the sheafH6016 beforeH6440 the LORD,H3068 to be acceptedH7522 for you: on the morrowH4480 H4283 after the sabbathH7676 the priestH3548 shall waveH5130 it.

    So we see that the day before the wave sheaf, is a 7th day sabbath, H7676 the 15th day of the month. Wave sheaf day is the 16th day of the month or the first day of that week.

    Lev 23:11 establishes that the 15th day is a 7th day sabbath H7676. It also establishes that the 1st day of unleavened bread in Exodus 12 is the very same sabbath day.

    Second month

    The Israelites came into the wilderness of sin on the 15th day of the 2nd month, the selfsame day they left Egypt. And they murmured.

    Exo 16:1 And they took their journeyH5265 from Elim,H4480 H362 and allH3605 the congregationH5712 of the childrenH1121 of IsraelH3478 cameH935 untoH413 the wildernessH4057 of Sin,H5512 whichH834 is betweenH996 ElimH362 and Sinai,H5514 on the fifteenthH2568 H6240 dayH3117 of the secondH8145 monthH2320 after their departing outH3318 of the landH4480 H776 of Egypt.H4714

    God said He would give tnem quail in the evening, at the end of the 15th day. He did not give them quail on the 15th day for some reason, as it is a 7th day sabbath. He would then give them manna beginning on the 16th day, the first day of the week. He would give them manna for 6 days, a double portion on the 6th day, and the next day was sabbath. Without doubt, this is the same sabbath of creation. God would not change horses in the middle of the stream

    And on the 6th day, Moses said;
    Exo 16:23 And he saidH559 untoH413 them, ThisH1931 is that whichH834 the LORDH3068 hath said,H1696 To morrowH4279 is the restH7677 of the holyH6944 sabbathH7676 unto the LORD:H3068 bakeH644 that(H853) whichH834 ye will bakeH644 to day, and seetheH1310 thatH834 ye will seethe;H1310 and that whichH3605 remaineth overH5736 lay upH5117 for you to be keptH4931 untilH5704 the morning.H1242

    Exodus 16 establishes several things. It establishes that the 15th day is important to God. Not only was it the day they left Egypt, it was the day they went into captivity 430 years earlier exactly to the day; the 15th day of the 1st month. It is also the selfsame day that they arrive at Mt Sinai in the 3rd month.

    Exodus 16 also establishes that the 7th day sabbath mentioned is on the 22nd of the 2nd month, which means that the 15th 7 days earlier was also a 7th day sabbath. You can’t have sabbaths on the 15th and 22nd of a month and not have them on the 8th and 29th.

    The other thing that Exodus 16 establishes is that the 7th day sabbaths mentioned, specifically the 15th day, is the 2nd month in a row that a seventh day sabbath is on the 15th day of the month.

    You simply cannot have that happen on the gregorian calendar that saturday is kept as the 7th day sabbath. Sabbaths will not randomly fall on the same exact day two months in a row on the papal calendar.

    Now lets examine the crucifixion. We know that Jesus observed His last passover on the evening beginning the 14th evening/day of the 1st month, the same day the Israelites kept in Egypt, and the night the death angel passed over. After the trial, during the daylight of the 14th day, Jesus was crucified. One should have no difficulty confirming these facts. And we know that Jesus rested in the tomb the next day, the sabbath, the 15th day of the week, and rose on the 1st day of the week, the 16th, (not sunday) the wave sheaf day and of firstfruits. The day He was in the tomb, was the 1st day of unleavened bread as well, as in Exodus 12. Now many will say that this randomly fell on a saturday, but it cannot be proven. Lets examine some evidence from Ellen White.

    That was a never-to-be-forgotten Sabbath to the sorrowing disciples, and also to the priests,
    rulers, scribes, and people. At the setting of the sun on the evening of the preparation day the
    trumpets sounded, signifying that the Sabbath had begun. The Passover was observed as it
    had been for centuries, while He to whom it pointed had been slain by wicked hands, and lay in
    Joseph’s tomb. DA 775

    When there shall be a “restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His
    holy prophets since the world began” (Acts 3:21), the creation Sabbath, the
    day on which Jesus lay at rest in Joseph’s tomb, will still be a day of rest and rejoicing.
    Heaven and earth will unite in praise, as “from one Sabbath to another” (Isaiah 66:23) the nations
    of the saved shall bow in joyful worship to God and the Lamb. {DA 769.2-770}

    So this sabbath that Jesus was in the tomb, is the creation sabbath, the one and the same established in Exodus 20 as H7676.

    The greek uses a slightly different word here, sabbaton, which is a word used when the 7th day sabbath occurs on a feast day, as in the case of feast of unleavened bread and tabernacles.

    G4521

    σάββατον

    sábbaton; gen. sabbátou, neut. noun transliterated from the Hebr. shabāth (H7676). Rest, a cessation from labor, Sabbath, pl. tá sábbata (Mat_12:1, Mat_12:5).

    So, in summary, two sabbaths cannot occur on the same day two months in a row on a gregorian calendar. And the same sabbath Jesus was in the tomb is the creation sabbath, the one established in Ex 20, and all of these sabbaths exampled here occur on the 15th and 22nd days of the month, which extrapolates into sabbaths on the 8th and 29th days as well. There are other Ellen White examples of the sabbath days other than the 15th, as well as many examples in scriptures of 7th day sabbaths always falling on these days.

    Since these examples are directly from scripture and Ellen White, can we consider them as valid?. How can we argue when the scriptures are clear.

  5. Brother Richard,

    How come I do not see my original comment.

    Sorry my friend. They are two different kind of Sabbath because they were set up for different intends.

    Thank you for sharing anyway.

    In Christ and in the Holy Spirit,

    Chin-Lee

    • When I scoll down, I see two of them previous, but maybe they aren’t showing to you, I thought I approved but will do so again. Thank you!

  6. Brother Richard,

    Now I see it.

    The 7th millenium of rest is a thing to come therefore is the anti-type of annual Sabbath only.

    Thank you for sharing your view.

    In Christ and in the Holy Spirit,

    Chin-Lee

    • I believe with Einstein the the universe is a great cycle and on earth, the cycle of 7 prevails for dayys (7 make a week) , years (six and then a sabbatical year), and milleniums implied in 2 Pet 3:8 and Exodus 20:9.

      I think all the eventsof Scripture are rooted in history but have prophetic significance for Paul says, “All those thing happened unto them for examples, and they are written for our admonition…ends of the world.” 1 Cor 10:11. I’m more comfortable not making a distinction between them, thank you for your recent comment.

  7. Hi brother Richard:

    You are saying that every year, there are three high Sabbath — an annual Sabbaths happen on a weekly Sabbath.

    First day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the first and eight day of the Feast of Tabernacles are related feast.

    These feasts are the shadow of the fact that Jesus did not sin and He tabernacled among us through incarnation all the way to His burial because after that day His body was glorified for returning to Heaven.

    Gospel related shadows : Creation memorial :: Everlasting Gospel : Worshiping the Maker

    Sorry my brother, they are related but not the same kind of Sabbath.

    By stand firm on the fact that they are two kinds of Sabbaths, we can understand Romans 14 correctly.

    Thanks.

    In Christ and in the Holy Spirit our God and our divine Friends,

    Chin-Lee

  8. Brother Chin Lee

    I fail to see how Romans 14 helps to clarify which days are 7th day Sabbaths and which are not.

    I also fail to see how Romans 14 helps to differentiate that there are two different kinds of sabbaths in scriptures. I grant you there are different sabbaths in scriptures, but they are not the ones when 7th day sabbaths occur on feast days of 15th and 22nd days of the month.

    I have yet to see you address the points I made in my post on Aug 4 above regarding the word sabbath H7676 that occurs in Exodus 20, Lev 23, and Ex 16. The use of H7676 in those chapters establishes that the 7th day sabbath and sabbaths on the 15th and 22nd days of the month are one in the same. So maybe you could offer explanation why they are the same. (H7676) and why the same word is used for each type of sabbath as you see it.

    Maybe we could start at a more basic understanding. Could you identify the calendar we are referring to here in this discussion? Maybe that would help to clarify things.

    Regards
    Paul

  9. Dear Brother Paul:

    Let us leave Romans 14 alone for now.

    Praise the Holy Spirit that you are thinking about God’s word often!

    Regarding to the word Sabbath is used in the Bible, it can be use to label two different kinds of Sabbath even though they happened on the same day of the year. When Elohim (Strong’s 430) was used in the Bible, does it always mean our heavenly Father? The same Hebrew word can be applied in the Bible to false gods, for example Genesis 35:4 vs. Gensis 1:1.

    As you know the two tables for the Ten Commandments were stored in side the Ark of Covenant but the the book for the statutes and regulations was hung on the outside of the ark.

    I can agree with you that it will add favor to the Creation Sabbath when we remember the festival Sabbaths that happen on the same days of the year because they help us to remember Jesus’ burial or incarnation or sinlessness.

    May the Holy Spirit bring each of us to agree with God who inspired the Bible. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

    In Christ and in the Holy Spirit our Gods and our Friends,

    Chin-Lee


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